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...only the final 25 had voted?
Voting analysis (3): What if...?
This would have been the result with only the countries in the final voting:
- Russia - 142
- Ukraine - 137
- Norway - 127
- Armenia - 116
- Greece - 108
- Turkey - 88
- Serbia - 81
- Israel - 70
- Azerbaijan - 59
- Iceland - 58
- Bosnia & Herzegovina - 56
- Georgia - 48
- Denmark - 44
- Latvia - 39
- Portugal - 32
- Spain - 31
- France - 30
- Sweden - 28
- Romania - 26
- Croatia - 26
- Albania - 21
- Finland - 21
- Poland - 4
- Germany - 0
- United Kingdom - 0
Norway would have finished in third position only 15 points behind Russia and Iceland would have reached the top ten. This is obviously based on the fact that all Nordic countries made it to the final. On the other hand, Sweden would have even finished in a lower position as Charlotte Perrelli got her only 12 points from Malta, one of the countries that were eliminated in the semi final. Greece would have dropped to fifth place while Armenia would have stayed at #4. The bottom three would be the same although without the countries from the semi finals, the UK and Germany would have shared the last place with no points at all and Poland would have been third last with four points.
Related polls
- POLAND: Your favourite song in the national final?
- ARMENIA: Your favourite song in the national final?
- The Netherlands decided: How much do you like Ik be verliefd (Sha la lie)?
- Cyprus decided: How much do you like Life looks better in spring?
- Iceland decided: How much do you like Je ne sais quoi?
- Denmark decided: How much do you like In a moment like this?
- Norway decided: How much do you like My heart is yours?
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Like someone said here before, imagine Dima Bilan from Portugal and Vânia from Russia - things would be the total opposite. Dima would have stayed in the 13th and Vânia would have stayed in the 1st place!
Another example, Marija Serifovic wouldn't have won if she was representing Portugal. (i do not say that complaining about the victory of Serbia 'cuz i like Molitva very much, it is just an example)
I don't care if people like or not Senhora do Mar. There is something everybody can notice: the main part of the comments talk about Portugal, good or bad! Portugal is not anymore a small country in the point of Europe. Senhora do Mar made Portugal standed up! In the last years nothing was said about my country but now Portugal is in the comments of lots of people who also use it to compare with strong countries in this competion. This year Portugal was one of the favourites to win since it got 2nd place in the final! This never happened before! Along with Ukraine, Greece and Russia, Portugal was, before the Finale, one of 4 favourites!
"SENHORA DO MAR" WAS, AND IS, A MARK IN THE PORTUGUESE HISTORY IN THE EUROVISION SONG CONTEST!
I'm so proud of this entrie that i could see Portugal out of ESC, for me this would be the PERFECT end for the "old-fashioned" participation (as some people say) of my country in ESC!
What it only the countries who were NOT in the final voted ? That would even up things because those who benefited from bloc advantage to qualify would lose it in the final. All countries would still have an involvement in the final, either as a performer or voter but not both. Except perhaps the hosts.
As there are many alternative Eurovision rankings these days, I also decided to make one. I took away the points that every single country got from their direct neighbours, from the so-called bloc-countries, and from its diaspora.
What surprised me is the fact that in such case nothing changes that much. Most of the countries move maximally for three positions up or down. There are only few exceptions: Bosnia, Serbia and Georgia – countries whose results would be much worse without their bloc points and the diaspora, and Israel and France - which would profit.
Here's the whole list with some explanations:
1. Greece 177 (points from Cyprus and neighbours were excluded - Turkey, Albania and Bulgaria)
2. Russia 162 (points from ex-USSR and Israel were excluded)
3. Norway 138 (without points from Scandinavian bloc)
4. Ukraine 128 (without USSR and the diaspora)
5. Israel 124 (every point included)
6. Armenia 67 (without USSR and the diaspora)
7. Turkey 62 (without the diaspora and Azerbaijan)
8. Azerbaijan 59 (without USSR and Turkey)
9. Latvia 54 (without points from Baltic states and the diaspora in Ireland)
10. Serbia 46 (without ex-Yugoslav points and without the diaspora in western Europe)
11. France 44 (without Andorra)
12. Portugal 43 (without the diaspora in France and neighbouring Spain)
13. Denmark 31 (without points from Scandinavian bloc)
14. Iceland 29 (without points from Scandinavian bloc)
15. Spain 28 (without the neighbouring points - Andorra, France and Portugal)
16. Sweden 24 (without points from Scandinavian bloc)
17. Georgia 19 (without USSR and the diaspora)
18. Albania 18 (without the diaspora in Macedonia, Montenegro, Greece and Switzerland)
19. Bosnia and Herzegovina 14 (without ex-Yugoslav points and without the diaspora in western Europe)
20. Croatia 14 (without ex-Yugoslav points and without the diaspora in western Europe)
21. Romania 13 (points from Moldova – the neighbour – were excluded, as well as the diaspora in Spain, France and Portugal)
22. Germany 12 (without Switzerland)
23. Finland 6 (without points from Scandinavian bloc)
24. United Kingdom (without Irish points)
25. Poland 0 (without the diaspora in United Kingdom and Ireland)
This might not be completely objective, but I wanted to show that the difference is not that big even when you exclude the so-called unfair points. However we counted the points, if you want a good result – every single point is important, especially those that you get from countries which are not in your nearby and don’t have much of your national minority. It doesn’t always have to be a twelve or a ten.
And just one more thing: As I took away the most points from Russia (points from even ten countries), try to imagine that Dima Bilan got only two points from each of these – he would still get more points than Greece and be a winner.
From the UK, I am starting to get fed up of countries that vote for neighbours. It's NOT fair because who have we got??? Only Ireland. No offence to Ireland but they didn't give us 12 points.
Our entrant was alot better than some songs on Saturday and yet we still finish bottom.
My idea is that we use an independent jury to judge the semi final so only the good songs get through and no biased votes from neighbouring countries get through unless of course it is generally a good song. Once this happens we have a fair final.
Once in the final if you were eliminated, then I'm sorry you don't get to vote. The countries that are in the final pick their top 3 from the entrants, yes OK some biased voting may still happen but if you have more than 3 neighbouring countires then you can't vote for up to 10.
The top 3 countries chosen are awarded 12, 8 and 10 points.
Then its back to the jury they should score each country based on certain factors: the song, the performance, the dance routine and the outfit. Once these have been chosen each country is awarded a score between say 1 and 25, so the top country by the jury is awarded 25 and the bottom, 1.
At least if say the blocs of countries (you know who you are!!!) vote for each other, the jury can offer a nice hefty 25 point bonus to the act that is the best.
The jury can't consist of judges from the countries in the EBU, so must be independent from say outside of Europe.
This i think might sound confusing but trust me it could work.
the Eurovision Song Contest needs new rules!!!
it's too big to see many countries will participating!
43 countries!!! next year it will be 45? - kosovo will maybe enter and maybe uzbekistan or turkmenistan???
is this the Eurovision Song Contest???
NO, NO - STOP!!!
one evening, one Eurovision Song Contest! not more!
it was okay to saw just one semi final to choice the top 10 in the final. but the system with 2 semi finals didn't work...
it's too much!!!
and what should brings europe when in the final can vote all 43 countries???? NOTHING!
we have seen it!
at first:
I would like to see the full program with the points from 1-12 by the spokersperson!
the voting part is the most greatest highlight in the show!
please bring it back!!!
please let just the participating countries in the final to vote!
please bring juries to the event...
50% juries / 50% televoting - this could help against the diaspora!
if we will see next year 2 semi finals again...
the voting should be change!
-the countries from the semi 1 should vote in the final only for these countries from semi 1 + big four and host country AND not more!!!
-the countries from the semi 2 should vote in the final only for these countries from semi 2 + big four and host country AND not more!!!
-the big four should be divide in two... two of them to vote for the participating countrys from one semi final which has passed in the final!
-only the host country should vote for all participating countries in the final.
-countries that has not passed in the final should not have to vote!
I think we will never see an Eurovision Song Contest with only 24 or 26 participating countries!
the idea with the voting like this idea would be perfect!
and when juries come back and we would see 50% juries voting and 50% televoting we would have a real winner without diaspora!
Can we agree on 1 thing, that in no country do the emigrants/diaspora count 4 half of the population? Can we agree that the diaspora in any country is not more than 15% either? In most countries the emigrants count from 2/3-10/15% max and even then it`s not a single nationality that counts 4 so much, the 15% is many different nationalities and many of them aren`t even from European countries (meaning their homeland is not participating in ESC)… can we agree on this so far?
So then u say that it`s normal if let say Danish ppl vote 4 the Norwegian song coz they have similar taste or that UK use 2 vote 4 Ireland b4 coz again they have similar language and cultural taste… so it`s normal that u c this countries share points coz they understand and like each other music better, so then why is it so hard 2 understand that lets say Turks in Germany will like the Turkish music better? Sure they vote 4 it coz of patriotism but can it also be (like the westerners) that they also understand the music better and like it better? Can it be that the Armenians in Belgium really liked and understood the Armenian music much more than the Belgian song? So it`s both ppl, both that they 2 like and understand music and also coz of the patriotic reasons.
Then u go on and complain that Western countries don`t win and eastern countries get more points coz of Diaspora voting (neighbor vote is still more understandable coz of what I mentioned b4… and this seems more fair in this unfair system, but diaspora voting is the worse 4 most of u). But if u so want 2 win or get better place in the final why don’t u just move ur lazes asses and vote? Why don`t u watch it more? Coz I`m sure the 3-15% of the emigrants in Belgium (and I`m sure it`s less than that, it`s 3-15% not just Armenians but Turks, Greeks, Somalia, Iran u name it) couldn`t give 12points 2 Armenia if the native ppl voted 2. U don’t watch it, u don’t talke it seriously, u don’t vote and then u come here and complain that u didn’t get a better place in the final? If u don’t watch, don’t vote ect why do u care if u win or get a better place? WHY? The emigrants watch it and love it and vote 4 it so why shouldn`t they get 2 c their countries in the Finial and have their country win? They r after all most of the active viewers, so why isn`t it fair that all Armenian watching it and being active with voting and then c Belgium win it when Belgian ppl didn’t even watch, didn’t really vote and don’t even care?
The semi final system worked this year!
in BOTH semi finals a significant amount of "old European" countries qualified (Israel, Finland, Iceland, Turkey, Portugal, Sweden, Denmark, Greece and Norway), even if most of these did belong to a voting bloc of their own.
HOWEVER, I still fail to see the logic behind tackling the bloc voting and diaspora voting problems in the semis and ignoring it in the final, where after all it has more impact.
There are two ways that the EBU can practically improve the fairness in the final:
1) Semi finalists that do not make it to the final vote in a "pack". the 9, 10, 11 or however many countries that do not make it to the final vote TOGETHER making ONE top ten for the first semi and ONE top ten for the second. ONLY qualified nations can vote as independent countries in the final!
2) partially or completely abolish the Big 4 (5 if Italy joins). This could mean the top 5 countries qualify to the final each year OR there is still a Big 4/5 but they must get into the top 15 to qualify directly to the final, this seems like a good compromise to the situation and it would spur countries like the UK to send better songs!
3) as a secondary rule, acts that are deemed to rely to heavily on PERFORMANCE or GIMMICKS or PROPS should be disqualified and the country choose a different song or do not take part all together!
The 2-semis system worked (more or less), but in the final there was the same old story.
I think that there should be a mechanism that would prevent countries from voting for the same countries year after year. A significant number of countries always gives away the same set of 8, 10 and 12. Juries would solve only one half of a problem. Friendly countries would still exchange points.
BUT, if there were a formula to convert the number of televotes into actual marks, a formula that would take into account the voting history of a country, then it would be much fairer. For instance, the total number of televotes gets multiplied (or divided) by a quotient that shows how much points the receiving country has been given during the last, say, 3 years. Simple, transparent, and solves both diaspora and neighbour vote problems.
And all these reactions are just "copy and paste" from what everybody wrote after last years final. Don't you EVER get tired of whining?
The song most people liked won, and it would have won even if only the countries participating in the final had been allowed to vote; that ought to tell you something.
"Believe" is a song that is easy to like for everyone, from children to grannies, it's a typical song of today's hit lists, and even if Timbaland himself was not involved in the production the song has that kind of "feel" to it. It was not my favourite, by any means, but I'm not the least bit surprised that a lot of people liked it and voted for it.
I fully agree with those of you claiming that for instance "Senhora do Mar" is a better song, but it requires several listen-throughs before you can really grasp it, and most people watching the ESC don't listen to the songs more than once or maybe twice. A lot of people don't even watch the semis, only the final.
To win this competition today, as the case has always been imo, you have to have a catcy song that's "easy on the ear", one that people can sing (or at least hum) along to. The only exception to this is "Molitva", other than that I would say that every winner the last 10-15 years have been in the "easy listening"-category.
So you have to decide; do you want to win, or do you want to keep sending music that by all means is great, but that is too demanding for people to really get after listening to it just once?
What happened to Portugal and Sweden??!! They were my favorite songs, great and elegat performances, good voices, so professional! I can't believe that countries like Latva, Bosnia, Georgia or Azerbaijan have placed higher than these two. It's crazy! How longer will we have to put up with this situation??
Pretty much the same.
Good Evening Europe!
Let me start by saying I’m from Portugal and I’m really proud of Vania and the whole team behind “Senhora do Mar”. I was very pleased to read all the positive coments from so many people all trough Europe. I was also very pleased with the 2nd place in the semi-final and the chance to take part in the final. On the other side, I’m very very disappointed with the results of this years final of ESC. It strikes me as very unfair for several resons.
I gather Russia had a good song, - but not the best, - which was overperformed and presented and so, didn’t deserve to win. I would rather see the Ucraine, Israel, Norway, Turkey or Portugal in the 1st place. But that’s just my opinion.
Eurovision Song Contest means a competition of songs representing European countrys. I won’t go into the European countries issue, questioning why countries like Israel or Azerbaijan should or not take part. But I genuinely think that there is no longer a competition of songs in Eurovision.
Due to very well know problems in the voting process only a few countries have a real chance of winning. These countries are easy to find: they are dominant within a political/geographical/cultural block and/or have a big immigrant community spread through out Europe. All the other participants are there just attending, and that kills the fair competition.
And since what matters is the origin and not the quality of the song and it’s performance, the big issue becomes politics, and not entertainement, art or culture as it should.
Though some things have been made to invert this situation, I think it’s not enough. We can see the results of the semi-final, when the block were split, and I think it was very positive. It’s a start.
There are no innocent countries in this process. Portugal always gives 12 point to Ukraine since there’s a televote, due to it’s massive presence of Ukrainian immigrants. But then Portugal always gets high scores from it’s neighbours, Spain and Andorra, and from countries where there’s a big Portuguese diaspora: France, Switzerland, Germany, Belgium, the Netherlands.
The reintroduction of juries could be a valid solution to change this kind of things, but I can remember the time when the Portuguese jury always gave 12 to Spain, which returned the favour. As did the UK and Ireland. As did the Nordic Countries. As did Cyprus and Greece.
And what abou the existence of four countries that buy their direct participation in the final?! Europe may be the home of Democracy, but Eurovision appears to have never heard of such concept.
What I want is EBU to show the ESC viewers and fans that it cares about the outcome of the contest at least as much as with the money it gets from the televoting and other businesses around the event.
So, my appeal is to all the ESC fans, that don’t feel happy about what the contest became, to gather in a platform, which can ask the EBU for the much needed changes in the contest’s regulation and procedures, in order to make the Eurovision Song Contest an event the brings people together, celebrating the culture, the creativity and diversity of the European people, the way it once did.
ESC fans of Europe unite!
Pedro Correia
From the TOP5 last night just Norway diserved the 1st place!
And fortunately, at least, Maria Haukaas Storeng got a 5th place!
(even tough Ukraine performed very very well)
Dear Ciao Sinan thanks for your support 
it is true that Russia won just because of the diaspora voting.
Althought we know the song is good, it was not the best at all! And they didn't diserved to win!
I see it's not just me that feels the saidness about ESC growing. ESC, a contest that i love, is taking the bad way.
This should be a party to celebrate the union of the European people, showing their cultures. Nowadays just become political and the fairness completly dissappear! This is no longer acceptable. Europe must be the home of democracy but is ESC is not.
This way Portugal will never win this contest. As well Iceland and Malta.
I've heard that journalists chosed "Senhora do Mar" as the winner; that's a price already. Thanks to all of you!
This issue about big4 is quite controversal too. This year i like the german entrie very much and i enjoyed UK entrie too. French and spanish entries were very dissapointing.
Would be more fair having the TOP4 qualifying automaticaly to the forward year along with the song of the hosting country. Even more fair would be just the song from the winning country passing automaticaly to the final. I think it's fair that the hosting country can have their song in the final.
Although we all know why there are the big4, they are the biggest contributors to the EBU.
THIS YEAR STRONGEST AND EMTIONAL SONG: "SENHORA DO MAR"
NO OTHER SONG THIS YEAR COME CLOSER TO "SENHORA DO MAR"(*) NO OTHER IS GOOD AS "SENHORA DO MAR"!
I'M HAPPY 'CUZ WE SENT THE BEST SONG SUNG BY THE PERFECT VOICE OF VÂNIA FERNANDES!
(*)(*)(*)
Ppl I also think that they should let top 5 or at least top 3 go 4ward without any semi coz at least b4, if u`re country didnt win but still was in top 10 (top 10 when we have 43 countries now will be 2 much, so that`s why I say top5 or top3) u would at least get something out of it, do u understand me? at least it wont feel so bad 2 lose, coz ur placing in the final will still mean something ...
but this way as we have now if u`re not the winner or Big 4, u might as well end up as the last place, u know what I mean? what separates the last place from 2nd place? nothing... at least if u get 2 go directly 2 the finials that`ll be some kind of consolation price
@Gabriel Aragon
Yes of course it`s all fair and normal if u vote 4 ur neighbors coz u`ve got similar languages or tastes in music, but come on lets be honest most ppl vote 4 their neighborers 1st and foremost coz of loyalty (so the neighborers will stay loyal 2 them 2) and coz they wanna bring the ESC closer 2 home and read again what I wrote earlier:
"yes the voting system is unfair, I`m aware of that and we all know now that ESC is not about the songs, who has the best song ect, coz if it was again Armenia, Greece or Norway would`ve been in 1,2 and 3 places (in no particular order) coz Armenian and Greek song is actually the kind of songs u hear at most European clubs. But no ESC is not about the songs it`s turned out 2 be about Politics, Patriotic and Neighborly feelings.
So why is the diaspora voting any more worse than lets say Scandinavian countries out of some kind of patriotic feeling (that they rather c ESC in Scandinavia) vote 4 each other 1st, giving each other the best points and the rest overs go 2 countries that they know about (nobody here in North really knows or has heard so much about the little Armenia) .... and then maybe they will also vote 4 some songs that they liked... but 1st and foremost most countries vote 4 their Neigbors, than the countries they know of(been 2 vacation at) and then, and maybe then 4 the song...
so it`s unfair but in this unfair system diaspora voting is as fair as the patriotic neighborly voting... so would it been more fair if Netherlands voted 4 Beligum, Germany or UK out of some patriotic neighborly feelings and the wish 2 bring the ESC closer 2 home instead of Armenia??? would`ve this been more fair? No, I dont think so, the fair thing would be 2 vote 4 the song u really like, but come on the name Eurovision song contest is obviously just an ironic name (and that`s sad)"
@joao luseno...
I totally agree with you and with your opinion!!!
...and I thought that portugal win the contest this year!!!
I was really sure she will win!!! it was the best song in the contest!!! it was the best!!! but, because of this shit and fucking neighbour-voting ended a really shit to the first place!
Gabriel Aragon!
Agree! The same goes for Denmark - but I was happy to see, that Turkey & Bosnia-Herzegovina got in the lower end of our votes this year!
One understandible thing is when a country votes for its neighbours because the language and the tastes are similar (Skandinavian, Former USSR or Ex-Yugoslavia countries) and another thing is when the voting of a country represents the taste of a diaspora living there but not of the host nation.
I live in Holland and I do not know Dutch friend who have vote for Armenia in the last 3 years. Undoubtedly some Dutch people did it, but not the majority and Armenia have gotten the highest scores from NL lately.
ONLY THE COUNTRIES OF THE EUROPEAN UNION SHOULD PARTICIPATE. END OF STORY...
(and for all of you that fight over east-west-north-east, europe has always been divided in West and East NOT by geographical terms BUT by political, historical and cultural terms. For example, Greece is east in geography, but has always been -since the beginning of history- west. It was THE beginning of west. More west than Poland, Check Republic and others (which are central in the map but have always been east in all other terms). I am not Greek, but we can't say whatever we want just because of eurovision! Some of you -especially the ones that want to be in the EU and are not- go open some books !!!
EUROVISION ONLY FOR EU MEMBERS !!!
Dear Europeans,
Last night were the most said and predictable voting ever... Voting is always a very exciting part, but now is coming no exiciting at all! We can guess almost all the 12 points! No matter the song is good or not Cyprus will always give 12 points to Greece. The same in the Balkans. The same in the Baltic. I have to agree with the people that say that Malta is the only fair country voting! I was really surprised with the scandinavia, they were quite fair and they didn't gave all 12 points to Sweden.
I can't believe that someone let this happen: Macedonia diserved to be in the final and it was not!?!?! How they explain that Macedonia got the 10th and went out the contest while Sweden got 12th and passed to the final!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! THIS IS A SCANDAL********** what a shame!
I'm a truly fan of ESC since kid, but now i'm getting very said about it. This is no longer a Europe contest but a Eastern-Europe contest!
~
I hope things can change for BETTER. If not, i am so said to say that but would be better if Portugal come out of the competion! THIS YEAR THE PORTUGUESE SONG WAS THE BEST! WE GOT THE SECOND PLACE IN THE SEMI-FINAL AND WHAT HAPPEN IN THE FINAL?????????? VÂNIA WAS THE BEST ON THE STAGE! SHE'S A TRUE SINGER!
VÂNIA DON'T WORRY! YOU JUST GOT 13th PLACE BUT YOU WERE NOT A SHAME FOR US! YOU WERE THE BEST! YOU SUNG PERFECTLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PORTUGAL FOR ME WAS THE WINNER NO MATTER WHAT HAPPEN! VÂNIA YOU WERE PERFECT!
Like Luxembourg and Italy all western countries should leave ESC and create a new contest since we no longer belong to this competion.
This year UK got a good song and ended up in the last position!
Russia just won because political issues, and because of the points from "neighboours"!
Voting system must be change because this way is NOT FAIR AT ALL.........
I'm sorry but i do not understand how is possibly that silly songs like Azerbaijan and Bosnia got a so high position!
Denmark was brilliant and they ended up in 15th.
And from the TOP 11 Norway was the best performance followed by Georgia, Serbia and Israel.
I don't know what to think about all this unfair issues! That makes me very said!
Sir Terry Wogan is right! EBU must do something now!
THANKS TO ALL THAT FAIRLY VOTED FOR US! THANKS FOR GIVING US A VERY DISERVING SECOND PLACE IN THE SEMI-FINAL!
THANKS YOU ALL!
****************************************************************************
Thank you.
@ Milos T.
Nine countries, which get the most points per televoting reach the final. The jury determine the 10. country. It is the country which get the most points from the jury AND which isn't already part of the nine countries which qualified per televoting.
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