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© Eurovisie Platform
"We want to bring The Netherlands back to the final!"
Dutch fans start search for 2009 already
A special profile page has been created on Hyves, the Dutch equivalent of Facebook. The idea of the so called Eurovisie Platform was born in Belgrade, after Hind’s elimination in the semi final.
One of the initiators, Grieteke Meerman states: "We were quite disappointed about the poor result of Hind this year. Actually, it’s been too long since The Netherlands made it to the final! We decided to create the Eurovision Platform in order to help Dutch broadcaster NOS to find the most suitable artist or band for 2009, and of course to help them finding the best song!"
"First of all, we selected 50 artists and bands which were divided into 5 groups of 10 acts. Every week, fans can vote for their favourites. Out of every group, 5 acts will proceed to the final, which will take place on Thursday July 24th. We want to recommend the top 5 to Dutch broadcaster NOS, because this top 5 will be a serious indicator as it represents the most desirable participants of the Dutch fans."
After the elections of the artists, the Platform will continue to contact the best Dutch composers and songwriters to write songs for the Eurovision Song Contest 2009. Grieteke explains: "Actually we hope that NOS can contract an artist or band on a short term, which will make it easier for the songwriters. It’s easier to write a song if you know who you’re writing for."
In recent years the elected artists got all the freedom to choose their song for Eurovision, which caused a lot of criticism in the Netherlands. In 2007, Edsilia picked a song written by her husband and in 2008 Hind picked a five year old song, written by herself. The Platform believes that NOS should keep a closer eye on the song selection as well. "We believe that many of the talented Dutch songwriters didn’t even take the effort anymore to compose a song, because they knew it was useless on beforehand. We hope NOS will change this detail of their selection formula. It’s the only way to receive more songs and to be sure that the most suitable song will be chosen for The Eurovision Song Contest."
The following artists and bands have made it to the Eurovision Platform final already: Anouk, Alain Clark, Wouter Hamel, Chipz!, Wende Snijders, Glennis Grace, Trijntje Oosterhuis, Big Black and Beautiful, Zuco 103, Krezip, Bearforce 1, Ilse de Lange, Gerard Joling, Ellen Eeftink and Nathalie Makoma. This list will be completed with 10 more names.
More information can be found here (In Dutch only).
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how do you explain that equally non-appaeling songs send out by a right nation do receive points?
Again IN YOUR OPINION non-appealing..and in your circle...and maybe in those 9 western countries. But the contest, these days, has 43 countries, Muireanne, don't forget that.
The same way, in the the old times, my country said 'oh well, our language isn't popular, ofcourse songs in english or french will win', the same way you have to understand that for 34 countries to follow the taste of 9 countries (who don't even agree between them as to the kind of song they like) is next to impossible.
And you'll see that very clearly if juries ever come back.
We are only a gathering of 10 (9 untill Austria returns)... even if we would vote amongst each other we wouldn't make it
And if Russia was only voted by ex soviet countries, they wouldn't even make it to the final.
And how did Norway and Portugal make it?
You would make it, if you sent a song that most people like.
Eastern, western, it doesn't matter, if a song is good it gets votes...there are so many examples that you forget.
And again you didn't answer my question..is it so hard to admit that no, most western songs weren't appealing even to western countries???
No it isn't hard to admit such a thing if it were true. But how do you explain that equally non-appaeling songs send out by a right nation do receive points? Is it so hard for you to admit very few people actually like the songs Russia, Greece and Armenia have brought on the ESC-stage? Personally I don't know anybody who found them at minimum acceptable to win... not one person (and believe me, I know a lot of people and due to my job I work with people in the music- and media-business on a daily base).
Point is, when we complain that the Balkan votes are devided between them (Croatia always gives its 12 and 10 to Bosnia-Herz. and Serbia, while Bosnia-Herz. spends its 10's and 12's every single year at Serbia and Croatia)... Greece certainly isn't the ring-leader of the block-votes (I admit to that for sure).
I can understand the type of music and cultural background is entirely different in the Balkan, the Slavic republics and the West... but please do also understand that the west isn't a whole... never has been. Our cultural differences are so spread it's only normal an Irish doesn't like what Belgium did this year, and an English isn't all that attracted to the German style, a Dutch sincerely wonders what Ireland was on about,... and so on. When you are cultural indifferent like Yugoslavia (Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herz., FYR Macedonia) and its direct neighbours who most likely belonged to a larger whole of it as well... it's also very normal you vote for what you're used to.
Bottom line: Ireland, UK, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Switzerland and previously Austria are all so different they won't vote for each other (or at least not that much). Also the 'east' and 'north' don't bother to do so anymore since they have enough neighbours to vote for.
We are only a gathering of 10 (9 untill Austria returns)... even if we would vote amongst each other we wouldn't make it. Think about that! Then isn't it normal we get a bit frustrated and have lost all possitivism about the entire ESC?
The question isn't really Why didn't Ireland vote for Belgium, Holland or France?
The question here is why on earth we voted for even worse songs the main viewer of the show didn't even like.
Worse according to you. And how do you know what the main viewer likes? How do you know what the average Irish liked? As far as I know no eurovision song was in your charts this year, is that right?
So, how on earth can you assume that the average show viewer didn't like Poland or Norway, for example?
How would you, as a Greek, react on such points (in the knowledge half of the songs isn't really good or badly performed
The same way I react every time I see songs that I consider bad, getting high points. But that's a matter of personal opinion, Muireanne...a song may be bad for me and good for you and we've had this discussion before.
And again you didn't answer my question..is it so hard to admit that no, most western songs weren't appealing even to western countries???
ok... imagine (and this is just an example ok - no semis, just one giant final):
These are the results of the Irish televote:
1 pt go to Andorra
2 pts go to San Marino
3 pts go to Germany
4 pts go to Switzerland
5 pts go to Portugal
6 pts go to Belgium
7 pts go to Spain
8 pts go to the Netherlands
10 pts go to France
and our 12 pts go to ... the United Kingdom
How would you, as a Greek, react on such points (in the knowledge half of the songs isn't really good or badly performed?
The question isn't really Why didn't Ireland vote for Belgium, Holland or France?
The question here is why on earth we voted for even worse songs the main viewer of the show didn't even like. Where do these votes come from? That's the question we struggle with here.
I voted once for Belgium this year in the semi, and once for Portugal in the final... but we're outnumbered to the televote. Many people watch the ESC over here, but they are not eager to spend lots of money in voting for it you know. Appearantly a vote costs very little in Greece?
Appearantly a vote costs very little in Greece?
Apparently it cost very little in Ireland, too, when you voted for Norway, my dear 
Muireanne,
I'm not debating the fact that some points are because of diaspora.
My question was simple....how didn't diaspora/neighbour voting affect Norway but it affected the scores of Uk, France, Germany, Switzerland, Netherlands and Belgium?
Can you answer that?
Oh, and btw Ireland in the 1st semi had no problem giving Norway 8 pts..no diaspora or neighbours stopped them from voting for Norway...what stopped them from voting for Belgium and Netherlands?
Andorra had no problem giving Norway 10 pts..what stopped them from voting for Belgium, the Netherlands or Ireland?
I do see the diaspora pattern but I also see that western countries CAN and DO vote for countries without diaspora, so why couldn't they vote for the ones we mentioned above?
Good idea. The Netherlands have to change something to reach the final….
Example:
Edsilia 2007, such a great performer, an average song + stupid choreography = bad result
I'll only take Belgium and Ireland as example ok:
Belgium:
In the 1st semi they gave 4 pts to Ireland and 8 pts to Holland, and received 10 pts from Holland. The highest scores went to Armenia (12) and Greece (10).
In the final their high-points went to Armenia (12, as usual), Turkey (10, as usual) and Greece (8)
Ireland: In the semi we gave no points to any of the western nations, however the high-points went to Poland (12), Greece (10) and Norway (8). We received 1 pt from Spain and Holland and 4 pts from Belgium for the western part.
In the final our high-points went to Latvia (12, the year before it was Lithuania), Poland (10, as usual) and UK (8, neigbourly voting perhaps yeah)
You see the tendency in that?
Mina:
I can't answer for other people but out of the countries you mention I voted for The UK And if Paolo hadn't sung so badly I would have voted for Switzerland.
by the time the finals came round there wasn't much western left to vote for
Muireanne, I'm talking both about the semis and the final
1st semi Norway got points by everyone except Greece (shame on us!) Belgium only got points by 2 countries, Netherlands (as usual) and....Estonia! Netherlands was only voted by 7 countries, out of which only Belgium and San Marino are western! Ireland's highest points, 7, came from....Estonia!
Switzerland in the 2nd semi was voted by 7 countries...only Malta and France western (and Cyprus if you consider it west). No points from the Uk, no points from Sweden, no points from Portugal.
Portugal on the other hand was 2nd in the same semi.
And that brings me back to my original question:
Why didn't even western countries vote for the Uk, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland and so on, when they easily voted for Norway and Portugal?
Why did western countries vote for Norway and not for Ireland, the Uk, France or Germany?
With only 7 western nations devided over two semi finals, the votes had to go somewhere didn't they? And by the time the finals came round there wasn't much western left to vote for.
Take along with that we don't do neighbour-voting, Norway and Portugal were about the only countries that could depend on the votes of western people... all other points coming from our countries usualy are diaspora-based, that's perhaps why Norway didn't get any 12 from our part.
No, Norway hasn't got a huge diaspora but they had a quite good song. Latvia had a terrible song, still they managed to harvest 12 points in Ireland (lots of Latvians, Estonians and Czechs around here lately you know).
Noone ever answered me.
Why did western countries vote for Norway and not for Ireland, the Uk, France or Germany?
Western, not eastern (where there's the excuse of block voting).
And Norway...not some country with diaspora.
It's fun when you can talk about eastern blocks and whine to each other but when faced with actual facts, where's the answer?
I'm not such a fan of Leona Daly myself, and I truely doubt she would have done any better than Dustin I'm afraid. We'll see how she does on the Second Chance Contest ok.
Good thing was we had good backing-vocals along this year, they saved us from a complete farce.
**So, once again: Thanks a million to Ann Harrington and Kathleen Burke.**
That's about the last I wish to say on this years' contest. My hopes are little but still existing for a better Irish result next year.
Hopefully the same will go for Holland, Germany, Belgium and France as well.
Oh, you're right about that - but after thousands of similar discussions here on esctoday, I think, I've lost a bit my faith and my nerves...
About Ireland: You were so short for being one of my overall favourites this year - even today, I watch Leona Daly's performance. I loved her and I really loved Not Crazy After All. Do you know if she's got an album soon?
Congratulations, Muireanne, for your patience...!
I've read now your whole discussion with Mina and I only can say that you are so right...
Thx Max, but it's not that much patience as it is love for the event itself... or better to say, what's left of it.
Hopefully we find the courage to send something better the next years (Mina is right about one thing, we did send minor song the past couple of years. But can you blame us? Whether we send in something good or bad, the result would be the same anyhow).
Congratulations, Muireanne, for your patience...!
I've read now your whole discussion with Mina and I only can say that you are so right...
btw.: Does anybody know when it will be clear if there will be changes next year or not?
You must realise the music that's common in Greece isn't at all popular in the west
And you must realise the music that's common in the west isn't popular in the east.
Maybe 'you in the west' don't know what music you like, or else how do you explain that only 2 countries voted for the Uk? What happened to the others?
How come France got its highest points (8) by 2 non-western countries, Iceland and Lithuania?
How come Germany was only voted by 2 countries?
Do you really believe that the rest were 'forced' somehow not to vote for the west?
Why was Norway voted? Portugal was also voted much more than western countries.
Are you sure that the problem isn't in the sort of music western countries send to the contest? That they send music that only THEY like?
No we didn't... we even called him/her a Frantic Teletubby wrapped in aluminium-foil.
You must realise the music that's common in Greece isn't at all popular in the west... but hey, who cares right? Whether we like it or not, you have enough NEW neighbours to back you up right.
Next edition Kosovo... Yeah, another 8, 10 or 12 for Greece!
Muireanne,
the french song was VERY GOOD, not just 'not bad'..but they totally ruined it with that stupid idea. The western countries must realise that's what's funny for them, isn't funny for whole Europe.
PS I believed the same thing about Verka last year but for some reason, peple (both east and west) found him funny.
The French song wasn't that bad you know... one of the best they have brought us in over twenty years to be honest.
Spain, ok... that wasn't much.
And by the way if Spain sends something similar to Rodolfo or France a singer with bearded women behind him, I hope they won't qualify.
Noone knows who will qualify. I never expected Poland to qualify but they did.
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