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More news from the Moscow meeting
Eurovision 'Big Four' final spots confirmed
Following another year of poor results for the Eurovision Song Contest 'Big Four', many media speculated that the four countries would surrender their automatic place in the final of the competition. As the four large financial contributors to the competition, their entries have been automatically qualified for the final since the introduction of a semi final in 2004. There will be no change in that status in Moscow.
In Belgrade, Spain finished in 16th place and France could only manage 19th position, despite having two of the most talked about entries of the year. Germany were 23rd and the United Kingdom finished in last place, both with 14 points.
There is a general view that under the current televoting system, not performing in one of the semi finals puts the countries at a disadvantage because their song is only heard once in the final rather than twice - by not performing live in a semi final, even though a small part of the official video clips are now shown in both semi finals during the voting window.
Traditionally, the Big Four have done well at the Eurovision Song Contest. France and the United Kingdom have each won the competition five times, Spain twice and Germany once. The United Kingdom also holds the record for the most number of second place finishes and the most entries in the top three of the competition but their results have fallen dramatically in recent years. Spain's last win came 39 years ago, France have waited 31 years since their last victory, Germany's only win came in 1982 and the United Kingdom has won once since 1981.
In fact, at least two of the Big Four have occupied places in the bottom four on the scoreboard for the last four years. In that time, with a total of 16 entries between them, none have achieved a place in the top half of the scoreboard. Germany came closest in 2006 with Texas Lightning. The song was one of the favourites to win the competition according to fans and bookmakers before the night but could only finish 15th.
2008 positions (out of 25)
- 16th - Spain
- 19th - France
- 23rd - Germany
- 25th - United Kingdom
2007 positions (out of 24):
- 19th - Germany
- 20th - Spain
- 22nd - France
- 23rd - United Kingdom
2006 positions (out of 24)
- 15th - Germany
- 19th - United Kingdom
- 21st - Spain
- 22nd - France
2005 positions (out of 24)
- 21st - Spain
- 22nd - United Kingdom
- 23rd - France
- 24th - Germany
The Big Four, along with the host country, will automatically take their places in the 2009 final in Moscow.
Related polls
- 2008 esctoday.com award nominations: Best act not to qualify from the semi finals
- 2008 esctoday.com award nominations: Most traditional Europop song
- First quarter final in Bulgaria: your favourite?
- Jury vote, do you agree?
- Jury vote only in the final or in the semis as well?
- What mixture of televote and jury vote do you think is the best?
Go directly to the reactions
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@Sims Moyal
Germany and UK won the same place, last - so why do you say in the article Germany got 23 and the uk got last?
secondly UK has got a victory in 1997 which is their last rather than their 1981 victory
If you bothered to read the article fully you would see that is states the uk has only won once SINCE 1981. It does not state that the last time the UK won was in 1981. By all means make comments but get your facts right first!
Certainly, I don't like the Big Four concept, but as Ramon Ramos said, under the current situation if Spain or France would be forced to participate in the semi-finals, they'd simply withdraw.
A new system (fairer) must be consolidated first of all before abolishing Big Four. Otherwise, Big Four countries would withdraw and without money and sponsors, ESC would die for sure.
apparently andrew lloyd webber will be on a jury to choose uk entry in an x files type show the story was in the telegraph
http://www.telegraph(...)urovision-entry.html
come on! the reason why he big4 dont do well is coz "their entries are only heard once"?? greece and malta's entry were heard once in 2005 as well and they came to occupy the first 2 positions!
Germany got 12 points from Bulgaria, and though they were joint last, the tiebreak rules mean Germany acquires the 23rd position. I didn't write that article anyway, so why are you asking me?
Germany and UK won the same place, last - so why do you say in the article Germany got 23 and the uk got last?
secondly UK has got a victory in 1997 which is their last rather than their 1981 victory
Here is a very nice article written by a Brit with a bit of sense and respect for Eurovision: http://blogs.thestag(...)seriously/index.html
O Great!! >=( Prepare for last place again UK ='(
One good idea would be to have 50/50 jury/televote for the semi final as well as the final.
Then after next year's competition the EBU should say to the big 4 countries that they got what they wanted, so they should have to participate in the semi finals as well in 2010.
for those whining about the Big Four... don't take our money if you want us to compete with all the others! But no...you want us to pay extra and lose our places in the Final. What cheek!
As the EBU know...if Eurovision loses big audiences in the 4 dominant TV markets of Western Europe, the contest won't last long.
Kevin Knight
Thats the word I was looking for!
In my opinion, this is the necessary condition that maintains Spain, UK, France and Germany at the show. Otherwise, the interest of the broadcasters in the ESC will fall dramatically, at least in Spain.
Too bad, this rule is very obsolete... it means that four countries could send any crap cos it doesn't matter anyway.
I thought that with sponsorship EBU doesn't need this rule anymore?!
I don't think Andy Abrahams and Scooch and their low scores and the Iraq war were in the slightest bit connected. I can think of 50 reasons why they didn't get any points though - top of them being that they had godawful songs.
Ben Gray
No, you hear about it every day. or don't you watch the news?
1. I agree with Jonny that it's all about the song...noone has anything against the Uk.
2. Personally I don't mind that the Big 4 have a place in the final..I'm used to it and I think it's fair since they pay for the contest. I don't know if being in the semi's would help them get more votes..or that people don't vote for them because they automatically go to the final...I don't think so.
3. Night Editor,
the ex-Soviet lets-keep-on-the-good-side of Mother Russia bloc voting will continue
that sentence is wrong. Who wanted to keep on the good side of Russia? Estonia? Georgia? Latvia? Lithuania? Is that why they're all thinking of boycotting and that they sided with Georgia in the last war?
Russian diaspora plus well known artists (either already famous like Dima or through promo tour in those countries) is what gives Russia points from those countries.
@ Yanni Georgiou. Thank you, at last a balanced independent view of the Big Four status and its effects. If the Big Four must retain their status as directly qualified for the final then they must (for the sake of their chances) be allowed to perform live in the semi-finals - perhaps as the interval acts. Also the final voting procedure must only allow those in the final to vote otherwise the ex-Soviet lets-keep-on-the-good-side of Mother Russia bloc voting will continue.
The Big 4, other than Germany, have not genuinely tried to send a good song the last few years (with Spain making a total mockery of the whole system last year and UK the previous year with the flying attendant theme). UK has been surprisingly irrelevant (Even if???) and always one step behind - and that's shocking considering the current music industry of that country. the truth is that if you're in the Big 4 bloc and your song is decent, you'll barely manage (e.g. Germany with Teas Lightning). But if you're in the Russian / Bosnian Bloc and your song is decent but not great, you'll win (e.g. the merdiocre "Believe" 
. Ukraine, Turkey and Greece seem to be the only country to already have figured out the right recipe fora good song and an engaging performance.
How come that the big 4, fail to get some points in the final (only heard once) and that funeral song from Serbia get's a top 7 position ???? Right yeah...not being heard in the semi,....not the right membership, you mean,.....
The Big 4 rule must fall.
But it did not now. So we have to live with it at least one year more. My suggestion: Let their performances be the interval acts of the semis.
I third Jonny K's statement. I also don't get this "no-one likes the UK" attitude. The Iraq invasion was 5 years ago, even in the UK you don't hear about that every single day any more, (although correct me if I'm wrong.)
If the voting was going to remain as 100% televoting then I would have preferred the Big Four to need to go through the semi finals, while last year's top 5 takes their places. One thing I've noticed that nobody else seems to is this..
If all countries bar the host had to qualify, can you imagine how BORING the final would be?? You'd have seen 95% of it all before. Even with the current system the final gives a fair sense of deja-vu.
It's a double edged sword really, if you gave, for example, the top 3 or the top 5 from last year an automatic place, you'd get even shorter semi finals. I want to see more countries in the final that I hadn't previously seen. Whether those countries are the big four or the last years high scorers doesn't matter to me.
Anyway, the juries are back, so I think give the big four rule another shot, you need to try out as many scenarios as possible to find the system that pleases the most people. I do not expect the big four to be given an unconditional boost by the juries, because I want to watch the UK entry being performed and feel a real sense of pride and so I will continue to campaign for and hope that the UK will send songs that are up to scratch.
Remember, this is 2008, not 1968, the juries won't be like they used to.
Bad decision - money rules the world I guess cause they know very well that non of the big 4 would qualify for the final with such songs.
"I think people will vote for us if we send the right song. I am pretty certain that had we sent Cyndi in 2007 we would have reached top 15 easily. Europe doesn't have anything against the UK, they just aren't that impressed by the songs we send to eurovision, so its our fault we do badly, not theirs."
Jonny, I couldn't agree more 
Personally I think the Big 4 should go through the semis.
If those countries didn't automatically qualify, they'd never get into the final. Ratings would plummet and the massive cash-flow to the ESC would cease.
I'm afraid the big 4 may never enter winning songs again - people just can't take the contest seriously any more, especially not successful singers and songwriters. Eurovision is suicide, no one wants to enter!
Booooooooooooooooooooooooooooo o!!!!!!!!!!!
Very bad!
Night Elf
LOL - Love shine a light"
Why did that win so easily? Well my friend - the contest that year just happened to be 2 days after Labour won a general election in the UK. The first time since 1979 that the Conservatives hadn't won.
So, UK ousts the Tories (Maggie Thatcher, Major etc...), elects a socialist government - seen as much more Europe friendly and 2 days later wins ESC - the first time since 1981.
Good song - but not THAT good.
Hmmm - ESC... juries or televoting.....the UK fortunes are always governed by the P word..... People in Europe don't vote for UK now because it's UK - middle east etc.....
Sorry - but it doesn't matter how good the UK entry is or who we send (Leona or whoever) - the UK won't get televotes. End of.
I can't believe some comments. "UK wont win but we will get at least some pts" is this what you are competing for. Is this why you ask jury back, to get some pts... Why don't you say, we will send better song, do promo tour and hope for our best, instead yeee jury is back we will get some pts. Sounds unfair already.
I think also big 4 would do better if they are in semi first. Aldo I don't think all big 4 would pass semi. But it's fair game. Some good songs will stay in semi and go home, while some bad songs will compete in final and take last place. But money rules the world, so there you can now buy jury to vote for you.. (I am not saying this to anyone) but JURY can't be trusted. I would thought ppl especially from UK would know what I am talking about since Cliff Richards 2nd place... but yet they come 5 times 1st and 15 times 2nd while there wasn't televoting, and only one time 3rd and all other times under 15.place since there is televoting so I guess they need jury to do good. But I honestly think UK need better song instead looking for jury. "Love shine a light" wouldn't be last in neither one year, where are songs like that. I took UK as example... I know their entries the most.
But anyway the only advantage I see in this jury-televoting system is unpredictable voting. So we won't have every year same 12s...and it can't bring excitement...Aldo I don' think Western countries would be excited if Eastern country wins again.
Let's wait and see, I just hope for great show!
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