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Reference Group decided
Eurovision 2009: The juries are back in the final!
A first step towards the reinforcement of the jury vote was made this year when one out of the 10 qualifiers from the semi finals went through based on the vote of local back-up juries. For next year, the EBU takes another step by deciding to introduce a voting model of a mix between televoting and jury vote. The idea is supported by the majority of the broadcasters who answered to the questionnaire sent out by the EBU as well as by a large proportion of the fan base. Further details will be announced in the months to follow.
Ruurd Bierman, Chairman of the Reference Group, explains: "We strongly believe in televoting as a way of measuring the opinion of our millions of viewers across Europe. After the public debate about neighbor- and diaspora voting, we decided to give the national juries a say in the outcome of the 2009 Eurovision Song Contest."
Svante Stockselius, EBU Executive Supervisor of the Eurovision Song Contest states: "Nothing is more democratic than the vote of the public. But a jury takes the opportunity to listen to the songs several times, before they make up their minds. In Belgrade, we saw a difference in judgment of the public and the back-up juries, and we believe a combination will make the show more interesting,"
The same format as this year will be retained for the semi finals, with 9 countries qualifying through televoting and one through jury vote. During the next meeting of the Reference Group details, such as the composition of the juries, will be discussed.
Do you agree with EBU's decision? Would you like to see the system extended to the semi finals as well? How much do you think jury vote should weigh?
Have your say in our polls below.
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I had a quick chat with that lead singer of Dervish in an elevator on the day of the final. She seemed like she was having a hellish time in the arena and didn't want to be there. Don't entirely blame her.
Muireanne
If you say you have read that 1994 IRL was not meant to win - you tell me where I can find it honey bun! i didn't say that the UK was any better than Ireland, only that Ireland had put in some rubbish over the last few years. I watched the rehearsals of Dervish in the hall, never mind youtube. The Irish team had steam coming out of their ears at the way it all looked. At least it means that Ireland will have to give up the tin whistle trick at ESC. Thank the lord.
50/50 would be the best split. And for the people talking about democracy: ESC is not democratic on its basis while the votes of Monaco (30.000 people) are equal to the Russia (142.000.000). This is a contest NOT General Elections!
In a way that is the only democratic part of the ESC. A small country like Monaco (30.000??? people - can't help wondering, where do they stash them all?) having an equall vote as Russia (142.000.000), for otherwise none of the small countries would stand a chance anymore. At least here an unbalanced majority of the largest countries is blocked off a bit (when however they start to split in smaller countries we have the problem as it is served today).
Fantastic!!
50/50 would be the best split. And for the people talking about democracy: ESC is not democratic on its basis while the votes of Monaco (30.000 people) are equal to the Russia (142.000.000). This is a contest NOT General Elections!
@ Alex Koenig:
The poule-idea isn't bad, but it needs a lot of work still.
Why 8 groups? And why divided as such? (I would switch Greece and Morocco to start with; and certainly wouldn't put the BeNeLux with the Baltics). Personally I think 4 groups of 10-14 countries each would be enough. The host automatically to the final and away with the Big4-rule each group then wil provide the final with its 6 'best'. Also this will lead to a final of 25.
Not voting for its own group in the final... great idea!
First you tackle the diaspora within the groups, and in the final the neighbourvoting is eliminated. Fair voting it will be... who knows hey?
No - don't believe Ireland have ever sent an entry to NOT win Eurovision. Certainly not 1994. It was good. More blarney. But I agree, Ireland has tried really hard to do very badly over the last 10 years - the Mullans, Joe, Donna, Turkeys, Millennium of Love, O'Shaughnessy, it goes on and on. Were they all deliberate attempts to fowl (ouch - turkey joke) it up? I just wish the Irish would admit they loved winning. They don't win that much else, let's be honest about it
In 1994 the Rté did send Harrington&McGettigan for they didn't consider the song ...well... good enough to win (in other words... Ireland was trying to rank top-10 perhaps but certainly NOT to win). Read some Eurovision-history on it dear, sure you'll find it somewhere on the net or in a newspaper/magazine.
About 'doing our best to perform very badly' the last couple of years... it wasn't all that bad as you say. Last year we even send in something good (but they froze on stage during the final; pls take a moment to look up the rehearsal of that song on YouTube and you'll see Dervish was a song meant to compete for the top-10 at least). For the others, 2005 was in my opinion the worst we send the past 10 years, but when I read the comments here a lot of people didn't consider it all that bad after all (beyond my comprehansion, but ok); 2006 (I think it was) we did rank a high position (10th place)... all others were average, but certainly not bad. I think you're confusing us with the UK or something dear 
It's hilarious, really. For years everybody's been moaning about Cyprus voting for Greece, Ukraine voting for Russia, Andorra voting for Spain, Scandinavia exchanging points and justifying it with one of the biggest onslaughts of paranoia probably ever to have existed in history.
Now that they're giving juries a say, people have come out of nowhere to riot about them trying to sway those results they weren't happy with in the first place! God, if you wanted someone else to win so badly, why don't you just go to every person in Europe and tell them to vote for them?
Oh, oh, wait! YOU CAN'T.
Yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!! Now we can get rid off Turkish and Armenian diaspora...................... .....................
Alex Konig:
In a word, no.
Christopher
Never mind coming back, Terry hasn't gone yet. How can you make a comeback to something that only you have done for the past 8 million years. Terry is probably worried he won't find any Michelin starred foie gras in Moscow. He might be right. Oh but those piroshki. You can put a pair of hot piroshki on your feet in the winter and they work like shoe leather for months.
Muireanne
No - don't believe Ireland have ever sent an entry to NOT win Eurovision. Certainly not 1994. It was good. More blarney. But I agree, Ireland has tried really hard to do very badly over the last 10 years - the Mullans, Joe, Donna, Turkeys, Millennium of Love, O'Shaughnessy, it goes on and on. Were they all deliberate attempts to fowl (ouch - turkey joke) it up? I just wish the Irish would admit they loved winning. They don't win that much else, let's be honest about it
THIS MIGHT SAVE THE EUROVISOIN CONTEST, AND SEEMS LIKE A MORE FAIR WAY OF CHOSING THE BEST SONG!! YAY maybe Terry will come back
I have a better suggestion than returning to jury votes: I suggest that the countries could be grouped under smaller groups for prequalification and would compete in the contest:
1) the Two Bees which are Benelux (Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg) and the Baltics (Estonia, Lithuania, Latvia)
2) the Nordics (Iceland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Denmark)
3) the West Mediterraneans (Portugal, Spain, Andorra, Italy, San Marino, Malta, Greece)
4) the East Mediterraneans (Albania, Cyprus, Turkey, Israel, Lebanon plus Morocco)
5) the Balkans (Slovenia, Serbia, Montenegro, Macedonia, Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Bulgaria, probably soon Kosovo)
6) the Big West (UK, Ireland, Germany, France, Monaco, Switzerland, Austria)
7) the Central East (Hungary, Czech Rep. Slovakia, Poland, Romania, Moldova)
8) the East (Belarus, Russia, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbaijan)
Rules:
- Each group should select their internal winner and then the winners should compete in a final where the total votes of a group would be counted as one vote. Then every group would be evenly competing. Small corrections could be made to improve quality of voting (ie: Bulgaria may be in the Central East group instead of the Balkans group etc) but these changes should not kill the possibility of internal selection of any country (ie: if Greece and Cyprus would both be in East Mediterranean, Turkish or Israeli song would never have a chance to qualify for the final because of Greece and Cyprus voting in favour of each other etc).
- This formation brings out 8 groups. Each group could bring out 2 songs to make it a 16-song contest. Internal limitations can apply per group (ie: The Two Bees can bring out one song from Baltics, one song from Benelux. Similarly the West Mediterraneans can bring out one song from Spain-Portugal-Andorra trio and one song from the rest of the group etc.)
- The groups would not be able to vote for their own group song in the Final (like in the current system the countries can not vote for their own song) so the east would have to vote for the west, the north would have to vote for the south etc.
- Even if there may still be some diaspora or neighbourly votes, it would be melted in the total of group votes (ie: if Cypriot song represents East Mediterranean group and Greek viewers vote 12 for it, when melted in the total of group votes of the West Mediterranean countries, it might not come out as 12 pts)
This system would be more democratic (because there'll still be televoting) and would represent countries from all parts of Europe (north, south, east, west, central Europe, etc) in the grand final.
Democracy this and democracy that. Democracy is the right to say want you want about a pretty pointless but entertaining show, or choosing whether to watch it. For the rest, why not just optimise the show for entertainment, quality or whatever you want to achieve? Or should we start accusing manuscript writers for being undemocratic when not asking for the public vote about how to end their stories?
Instead of being so dramatic, why not discuss how this will affect the contest? It is not a question of changing our society.
I am so pleased,thank god,it's the only to save our beloved contest.infact it should be all jurie's.and should also be used in the semi's.but at least this is a start.
w s,
Where did I mention Ireland being the best entry of 1994 ????
I think I said 'one of the best' (quote: After reading this comment I took the time to listen to most of the other contestants from the 'Irish' years... not many that came even close... not even in 1994.) ????
Mulreanne, I don't agree about Ireland being the best in 1994. That year had so many great entries. The Irish song was OK, but nowhere near as good as Portugal, Hungary, Russia, France and even the UK.
But, while I don't like the return of the juries, I don't believe the stories of them being bought. I think they just voted for the songs they liked best. It is all a rumour, and a rumour which can't be proven.
Molly must clearly be over the moon with the return of the juries, as she has been non-stop posting since the announcement. It's good to have you back, Molly
democracy is one macedonian + 4 mobile phones + 12 televotes each = 48 votes. Sorry Macedonia but you know what I mean.
Democracy means that everyone has the same rights. Since the natives can also have 4 mobile phones and vote 48 times each, you can't say it's not democratic. Un-democratic it would be if the natives were prevented somehow from voting as many times as they like.
I'm glad they decided to take this 'huge' decision in 2009 after years of people correctly predicting the votes by logic.
The fact that all those diasporas could go on casting their sabotage votes for years without action has severely damaged the contest and the EBU can be held fully accountable.
I have never believed that stuff about the Irish not enjoying winning 3 times in a row.
We were proud (off course, who wouldn't be)... but not happy.
Molly,
You win it... you host it (and pay for it)!... that's the downside of winning the ESC and Ireland took its responsibility in that.
Yes we maintained the same type of entry, but who could predict Europe would fall for that 3 years in a row? Not us! And as a ESC-fan you should know Ireland had send Harrington&McGettigan (1994) to make sure NOT to win too (we failed on that one I guess, though I personally liked the song a lot and still do).
Anyway... we're ready for a new one... and "you're all invited to Dublin to party the Shamrock way!" (to use some feathered words).
Luxembourg and Israel both won two contests in a row. Neither of them hosted it twice in a row. And if Ireland didn't want to host it a second or third time they didn't have to - UK, Netherlands or - and especially - Malta, would have stepped in immediately. Malta wanted to stage it when they came 2nd a couple of times.
Muireanne
I have never believed that stuff about the Irish not enjoying winning 3 times in a row. That's pure blarney! They more or less held it in a held it in a field and they still won!
btw... Luxemburg and Israel used to win several editions in a row as well... no complaint about that?
Don't blame us for your country didn't have a good entry back then.
Don't you remember the bad old days, when the jury already killed the contest by selelcting non popular, predictable acts, made one country win three times in a row just because they liked it thier and exchanged points ?
And with this you're on about 1992-93-94 Ireland. Sorry, but you think the Irish really liked that? You know how much a festival costs? Ireland only won twice undeserved. In 1987 (should have been Italy or Germany) and 1996 (should have been Sweden)... all other 5 wins the Irish entry was way better than most others...
After reading this comment I took the time to listen to most of the other contestants from the 'Irish' years... not many that came even close... not even in 1994.
i guess Armenia,Turkey,Ukraine & Russia can kiss their internal top position butt goodbye ?
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